Re: National Israels future
Geplaatst: 03 jan 2011, 11:15
Israel's future is clear: Joel 3:1,2
Hi Aad,Aad schreef:I am a gentile and I will stay one, even in Christ Jesus, because He accepts me as a gentile, and He accepts a Jew as a Jew: and He brings us, Jew and gentile, together in Him, by breaking down the wall that seperated us.
Those who push replacement theology are "wise in their own conceits." They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel - that generously admits repentant Gentiles into the SPIRITUAL COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL - to spiritualize away God's faithful promises to physical Israel! Now that they've been admitted, they jealously want to exclude Judah and usurp Israel from their rightful place in God's plan! (Rom. 11:24). Individual Israelites may fall away, converted Gentiles grafted in, but the NATION OF ISRAEL is here to stay!Alexander CD schreef:Hi Aad,Aad schreef:I am a gentile and I will stay one, even in Christ Jesus, because He accepts me as a gentile, and He accepts a Jew as a Jew: and He brings us, Jew and gentile, together in Him, by breaking down the wall that seperated us.
I agree to some degree, a gentile doesn't have to becom a jew anymore like in OT times.
A German can stay a german and a Dutch fellow Dutch, but thats the natural site.
I want you to consider the spiritual site, where the bible speaks of in 1 corinthians 2 : 14-15
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Like a Jew belonged to Gods covenant people in the old dispensation, so a christian belongs to Gods Covenant people in the new dispensation, he is a spiritual Jew.
Because these things are spiritual discerned not everybody will understand it.
In Christ ACD
Now you're almost there, Joannah. Indeed we have become spiritual Israelites. And only the jews that are spiritiual Israelites too are Israelites. So the middlewall is broken away.Joannah schreef:Those who push replacement theology are "wise in their own conceits." They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel - that generously admits repentant Gentiles into the SPIRITUAL COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL - to spiritualize away God's faithful promises to physical Israel! Now that they've been admitted, they jealously want to exclude Judah and usurp Israel from their rightful place in God's plan! (Rom. 11:24). Individual Israelites may fall away, converted Gentiles grafted in, but the NATION OF ISRAEL is here to stay!Alexander CD schreef:Hi Aad,Aad schreef:I am a gentile and I will stay one, even in Christ Jesus, because He accepts me as a gentile, and He accepts a Jew as a Jew: and He brings us, Jew and gentile, together in Him, by breaking down the wall that seperated us.
I agree to some degree, a gentile doesn't have to becom a jew anymore like in OT times.
A German can stay a german and a Dutch fellow Dutch, but thats the natural site.
I want you to consider the spiritual site, where the bible speaks of in 1 corinthians 2 : 14-15
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Like a Jew belonged to Gods covenant people in the old dispensation, so a christian belongs to Gods Covenant people in the new dispensation, he is a spiritual Jew.
Because these things are spiritual discerned not everybody will understand it.
In Christ ACD
"O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance; We are thine: thou never barest rule over them [Gentiles]; they were not called by thy name" (Isa. 63:17-19).
Some Gentiles have forgotten that God hasn't called Israel to become spiritual Gentiles, but has called everyone to become spiritual Israelites! They've forgotten that ISRAEL IS THE HOLY ROOT to which they've become attached. Paul warned them: "Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee" (Rom. 11:18).
Jesus said follow me, thats all we do!Joannah schreef:They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel -
And I am always wondering why people who dig so much into the Old Testament, (which is all about the Promise coming true in Christ, that the Holy Spirit will now dwell on earth with us and be given to those who believe)Fjodor schreef:Now you're almost there, Joannah. Indeed we have become spiritual Israelites. And only the jews that are spiritiual Israelites too are Israelites. So the middlewall is broken away.Joannah schreef:Those who push replacement theology are "wise in their own conceits." They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel - that generously admits repentant Gentiles into the SPIRITUAL COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL - to spiritualize away God's faithful promises to physical Israel! Now that they've been admitted, they jealously want to exclude Judah and usurp Israel from their rightful place in God's plan! (Rom. 11:24). Individual Israelites may fall away, converted Gentiles grafted in, but the NATION OF ISRAEL is here to stay!Alexander CD schreef:Hi Aad,Aad schreef:I am a gentile and I will stay one, even in Christ Jesus, because He accepts me as a gentile, and He accepts a Jew as a Jew: and He brings us, Jew and gentile, together in Him, by breaking down the wall that seperated us.
I agree to some degree, a gentile doesn't have to becom a jew anymore like in OT times.
A German can stay a german and a Dutch fellow Dutch, but thats the natural site.
I want you to consider the spiritual site, where the bible speaks of in 1 corinthians 2 : 14-15
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Like a Jew belonged to Gods covenant people in the old dispensation, so a christian belongs to Gods Covenant people in the new dispensation, he is a spiritual Jew.
Because these things are spiritual discerned not everybody will understand it.
In Christ ACD
"O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance; We are thine: thou never barest rule over them [Gentiles]; they were not called by thy name" (Isa. 63:17-19).
Some Gentiles have forgotten that God hasn't called Israel to become spiritual Gentiles, but has called everyone to become spiritual Israelites! They've forgotten that ISRAEL IS THE HOLY ROOT to which they've become attached. Paul warned them: "Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee" (Rom. 11:18).
When I read your posts on this subject I'm always wondering what you mean by the promises of God that are given to the physical Israel. Abraham received the promises only by faith; because he believed God attached him in the holy Root.
Like in verse 21, the Bible explains it immediately.Alexander CD schreef:Jesus said follow me, thats all we do!Joannah schreef:They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel -
Now you say the Lord Jesus has twisted scripture, look what the bible says,
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
But as I said spiritual things most be discerned spiritually the natural man cannot understand them.
But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.Joannah schreef:And I am always wondering why people who dig so much into the Old Testament, (which is all about the Promise coming true in Christ, that the Holy Spirit will now dwell on earth with us and be given to those who believe)Fjodor schreef: Now you're almost there, Joannah. Indeed we have become spiritual Israelites. And only the jews that are spiritiual Israelites too are Israelites. So the middlewall is broken away.
When I read your posts on this subject I'm always wondering what you mean by the promises of God that are given to the physical Israel. Abraham received the promises only by faith; because he believed God attached him in the holy Root.
Abraham wasn't attached to a holy root, these chosen people of God, who believe, ARE the root.
rom 11:16.
It's those tiny little alterations, sometimes only a proverb, that misinterpret the bible's texts and meanings.
That's right, Only faith will save, but branches are not roots.God is able to graff them in again and cut us off.Fjodor schreef:But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.Joannah schreef:And I am always wondering why people who dig so much into the Old Testament, (which is all about the Promise coming true in Christ, that the Holy Spirit will now dwell on earth with us and be given to those who believe)Fjodor schreef: Now you're almost there, Joannah. Indeed we have become spiritual Israelites. And only the jews that are spiritiual Israelites too are Israelites. So the middlewall is broken away.
When I read your posts on this subject I'm always wondering what you mean by the promises of God that are given to the physical Israel. Abraham received the promises only by faith; because he believed God attached him in the holy Root.
Abraham wasn't attached to a holy root, these chosen people of God, who believe, ARE the root.
rom 11:16.
It's those tiny little alterations, sometimes only a proverb, that misinterpret the bible's texts and meanings.
Then, when you read further in Romans 11, the physical Israel isn't just called the root. Paul speaks about them as the branches that are cut away! And we are the branches that are put in there place. You're right that Abraham is called the root there, but what does it mean? Abraham is called the root because the rest of the believers! are saved trough the same faith as he and so became residents of the same heavenly Jerusalem (Heb 12).
You don't answer my questions. And I showed you that Israel is also called branches, you said something different, maybe you could make a comment to that point too?Joannah schreef:That's right, Only faith will save, but branches are not roots.God is able to graff them in again and cut us off.Fjodor schreef: But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.
Then, when you read further in Romans 11, the physical Israel isn't just called the root. Paul speaks about them as the branches that are cut away! And we are the branches that are put in there place. You're right that Abraham is called the root there, but what does it mean? Abraham is called the root because the rest of the believers! are saved trough the same faith as he and so became residents of the same heavenly Jerusalem (Heb 12).
For I would not, brethren,
that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be
wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened
to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be
saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away
ungodliness from Jacob
For this is my covenant
unto them, when I shall take
away their sins.
I believe we exist along Israel, and not in stead of Israel.
Israel and we, the gentiles, are both branches.Fjodor schreef:You don't answer my questions. And I showed you that Israel is also called branches, you said something different, maybe you could make a comment to that point too?Joannah schreef:That's right, Only faith will save, but branches are not roots.God is able to graff them in again and cut us off.Fjodor schreef: But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.
Then, when you read further in Romans 11, the physical Israel isn't just called the root. Paul speaks about them as the branches that are cut away! And we are the branches that are put in there place. You're right that Abraham is called the root there, but what does it mean? Abraham is called the root because the rest of the believers! are saved trough the same faith as he and so became residents of the same heavenly Jerusalem (Heb 12).
For I would not, brethren,
that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be
wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened
to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be
saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away
ungodliness from Jacob
For this is my covenant
unto them, when I shall take
away their sins.
I believe we exist along Israel, and not in stead of Israel.
Allright then, what's the difference? The Israelites will be graffed in as branches. And we will be graffed in as branches.Joannah schreef:Israel and we, the gentiles, are both branches.Fjodor schreef:You don't answer my questions. And I showed you that Israel is also called branches, you said something different, maybe you could make a comment to that point too?Joannah schreef:That's right, Only faith will save, but branches are not roots.God is able to graff them in again and cut us off.Fjodor schreef: But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.
Then, when you read further in Romans 11, the physical Israel isn't just called the root. Paul speaks about them as the branches that are cut away! And we are the branches that are put in there place. You're right that Abraham is called the root there, but what does it mean? Abraham is called the root because the rest of the believers! are saved trough the same faith as he and so became residents of the same heavenly Jerusalem (Heb 12).
For I would not, brethren,
that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be
wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened
to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be
saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away
ungodliness from Jacob
For this is my covenant
unto them, when I shall take
away their sins.
I believe we exist along Israel, and not in stead of Israel.
When our number is completed, He will turn to His favourite, chosen people, once again. And ALL Israel shall be saved.